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In the world of mixed martial arts, there are people who break the proverbial glass ceiling, transcending the sport and becoming something much bigger. In today’s world, you have Ronda Rousey who will fit into that category. But long before Ronda started making her opponents submit to her armbars or acting in marquee Hollywood movies, there was one other person doing exactly that. Not only has he been a successful MMA fighter and an actor, he also became an icon in the most populous country in the world, China.
Cung Le is a familiar name to all the MMA and movie fans all around the world, and after being away from the Octagon for a while, he returned to be a mentor on the inaugural edition of TUF – China. He was present for the TUF – China finale during UFC Fight Night – Macao, and I had the absolute honour and privilege of catching up with the one and only Cung Le!
Firstly, I wish to thank you for taking the time out to do this interview with Sportskeeda, India. It’s an absolute pleasure to be sitting down here with you and talking to you in person.
Lee: It’s a pleasure.
The first question to you is something I ask every fighter I interview – Why did you get into MMA and what does it mean to be a fighter?
Lee: Why did I get into MMA? I was fighting for strikeforce, when they were doing kickboxing events and they let me fight my style Sanda, which is the most popular style in China. One of the promoters Scott Kruger, who was doing MMA promotion asked me if I want to fight at one of their events, it was 2006 at the San Jose arena, at the time which set the attendance gate in North America, I think it was about 18,000. That was how I got started in MMA.
As to why I became a fighter, I think to sum it up, I used to get picked on a lot when I came over here as a refugee from Vietnam, staying from one refugee camp in the Philippines to another one in Guam to finally, California. When I started school, I was bullied all the time and my mum put me into martial arts and I started fighting back. My martial arts teacher at that time would tell me not to react and just walk away and I would channel my aggression when I started wrestling and then I started martial arts again, after I had stopped it for a bit when wrestling, I started with Sanda as an amateur and went to the world championships and I was the only American to win 3 bronze medals in 3 different years and that’s how I became a fighter.
A lot of the people don’t know that you were actually a wrestler in your younger days. Do you want to elaborate on that, your amateur background in wrestling?
Lee: Yeah, I started wrestling when I was in the seventh grade and I wrestled year around till my 2nd year in college. So I wrestled freestyle, Greco-Roman and collegiate wrestling and a lot of people don’t know that and that’s a good thing because they think they can just go in there and take me down and submit me. So, I don’t mind them not knowing.
Alright, how did you get your start in the UFC?
Lee: I was fighting in Strikeforce and the UFC ended up buying it, but they were still kind of partners with Showtime who didn’t kind of want to let go of my contract though I wanted to fight in the UFC. So, at the comic con which is the biggest comic book convention in the world, I was promoting a movie that I had finished and I said that if I can’t fight in the UFC, I am going to retire. Then Dana White & Lorenzo brought me into the office and they told me that they like my fighting style and that they want me to fight in the UFC and they tore up my old contract and they gave me a new contract.
Now, after the buzz last year about a shot at the middleweight title, we never saw you fight again. Do you have any aspirations to fight for the title now that we have a new champion?
Lee: Well, you know the reason I didn’t fight after that was because I had 3 elbow surgeries and since then I would say I am about 85% recovered and I feel a lot better. But it takes a lot of time to heal and I am getting older, even though I like to think I am young and 41 is the new 31 (laughs). But basically, I am going to look at one fight at a time and it’s been a while since I stepped into the octagon and the only 2 times I lost in my career is when I had taken long layoffs for my movies and when I was injured. But I have learnt from my last 2 times and I will be ready to get into the Octagon and be ready to fight.
With your extensive Sanshou training, were you able to impart any of it to the contestants of the TUF?
Lee: Well, with my experience in Sanshou, I kind of knew how the Chinese fighters would fight and I tried to help them transition and get their game a bit more well-rounded to compete in MMA, I wouldn’t say UFC yet as it’s a steady climb to the UFC being the number one promotion with the best fighters in the world, and it’s not because of the athletes but more due to the coaching. Obviously, if you saw that on the show, there’s a lot of talent in China but just that there isn’t a lot of good coaching. So, now that the UFC is in China and are trying to get deeper into the territory, it’s just a matter of time that some Chinese fighters would end up getting in the chase for the title.
How was your experience overall in TUF – China?
Lee: My experience in TUF – China was one of the toughest experiences because I had to wear so many hats. One being the Dana White of China, and I never knew what he has to go through and I am sure that wasn’t even half of what he does but whether it was a quarter or a half of what he did, it was enough stress for me that would last a lifetime. But mentoring the 2 teams, it was like double duty and so, I couldn’t just go back to my hotel and rest after one training session but then, I had to stay for both training sessions and I could have just left after I started the practice and got it rolling but then the TV crew in China, having never shot a reality show, I had to stick around to ensure they shot it right. So, I was there for four practice sessions every single day, including the practice sessions in the morning for the 2 teams and then the same routine the second time in the day. The days seemed longer because of that and 7 weeks I was there, felt like 7 months.
Any good fighters that we should probably watch out for?
Lee: There are 2 fighters in the finale and if you are on the undercard, all these fighters have the potential for the ‘fight of the night’, ‘knockout of the night’ with their stand up and are evenly matched. You will see their experience, their heart and their determination in a few days.
The next question would be a bit of an interesting one for you. With the continued success of grappling techniques in MMA, do you feel that striking arts such as Sanshou, Muay Thai and such have lost their effectiveness?
Lee: No, not at all. When you are a standup fighter, the only time it isn’t effective is when you don’t have a takedown defence if you are not good on the ground. Obviously, even when you have good takedown defence but lose your balance and the guy lands on top of you and you don’t have a good ground game, then there is trouble. But if you are trying to evolve your whole martial art game, then you should be fine. I think now it’s more of the standup, because everyone is so well-rounded on the ground, they know how to neutralise submissions and you get position and ground someone out. Most of the fighters stay on their feet now, unless you are a high-level jiu – jitsu guy like a Jacare or Demian Maia, then they try to take you to the ground or else everyone tries to do it standing up as it also helps keep the appeal of the audience who like to see people get punched or kicked to the face.
What do you think of the early stoppages in MMA contests?
Lee: Sometimes the stoppages are uncalled for, sometimes it is necessary to stop it when the fighters are not able to defend themselves, and if they are not defending themselves, that’s their own fault. If the fighters, like for example Uriah, he gave a thumbs up and they stopped the fight, that is debatable. Even the Ronda fight I thought was stopped a little bit too fast but, you know she didn’t give a thumbs up or wasn’t defending herself. The only way is to let it run a little bit longer and the referee should say “defend yourself” and if the fighter can’t say or do anything once the referee says that, then he should step in and stop it. That has to be implemented.
How do you see your chances in the UFC’s middleweight division as being the only top fighter above the age of 40?
Lee: I see my chances as being good, just the same as anyone else’s you know. All it takes is one kick to the head or one punch too, like it happened to Rich. Rich had come off a win over Wanderlei and I came off a loss to Wanderlei, though I wasn’t 100 % in that fight and I had to take it as it was my first fight in the UFC.
Moving on to your acting career, has it been tough managing the two very demanding careers in fighting and movies?
Lee: After so many years of me doing it, I am finding the rhythm of juggling both careers. At first, it was very hard.
How have you been able to stay focussed, injury-free and dedicated to both the professions?
Lee: Well, I have been doing martial arts for very long now and over the years I know how to fight and I have gotten very smart about my training. I push hard on my cardio and push hard on other things, but when it comes to sparring, I don’t have to kill myself as I know how to fight and would rather save it for when I step inside the Octagon. That’s been the biggest key you know, to not leave it all inside the gym. Other fighters, sometimes they over-train and when they go to a fight, they fall flat while because I don’t do any harsh sparring, my body is fresh and when I go to the Octagon I know how to fight and am just as competitive as anyone.
Among all the action heroes that you have acted alongside in Hollywood, including the likes of Donnie Yen, Van Damme, Channing Tatum etc, who do you think is the most legitimate tough guy, someone who can handle themselves well in a real-life fight scenario?
Lee: I have to say Channing Tatum. He’s very athletic, has come to train with me and I have rolled with him, he’s a strong guy and he knows how to move. Even though a lot of people don’t know, he actually had a black belt in some kind of Kung Fu and just because I have trained with him, I know that he probably would have the best shot at winning if it was a big tournament pitting all the Hollywood action stars against each other.
You can listen to the entire interview below.
Cung Le was a pleasure to talk to, and had told me about his two sons who’re 13 and 9 respectively, and have already started training! He said there is a good possibility that someday, they might follow in his father’s footsteps. You can follow Cung Le on Twitter at @CungLe185 or on his Facebook fan page at https://www.facebook.com/cung.le
