Raman Gujral is known as the Grandfather of Indian poker after a 15-year career that saw him start playing early and soon, he was representing India on the world stage after winning the first live tournament he ever played.
Gujral’s hiatus from the game started in 2013 after being disillusioned by the poker scenario in the country and dealing with personal issues. We found the elusive maestro at the venue of the Poker Sports League in Goa and did not miss the chance to catch up with the champion.
Excerpts from the interview:
Q) A lot of fellow poker players call you the grandfather of Indian poker, so can we go back to the time you got introduced to the game of poker?
I moved to the USA in 1998 and I believe sometime in June or July of 1998 I got introduced to the game of poker by my friends at a poker game at one of their houses. In those home games, we were playing one of the many variations of poker. It seemed to me that it was a recreational game and this was the first time I’d played poker.
In my last quarter at UCLA, I saw a few people playing poker with some cash and one of my friends had a book titled “play poker like the pros“. I just started reading the book and was fascinated that people played that game for a living. In my day trading job, there would be a lot of downtime between the peak trading hours. To kill time, I would read a poker book and study the game in depth out of interest. I would play online occasionally but not seriously at all.
Q) So how and when did you actually start playing poker?
Then came a time in 2003 when my office was shutting down and I was being retained under the condition of supervision. My mentor was moving to Las Vegas and that meant that I too had to move to Sin City. My mentor was a pretty good trader and his trainees were poker players. I took the opportunity to learn poker from them and went to casinos to watch the games. But I still hadn’t played the game.
Q) Did you continue playing online poker in India or switched to real games?
All of my poker games till 2010 were online. Even in India I played online on party poker in sit and go tournaments which are normal tournaments but held in a virtual format with any number of players. The chips you win though are worthless till you reach the end of the tournament and I ended up winning quite a few of those and made some money. From 2007 to 2010, I only played online poker.
Q) When did you actually decide to start playing live games and when did you decide to become a professional player from an online poker player?
In 2007 I started playing cash games but they were still online cash games and in 2009 I went through a lean patch where I couldn’t make much money. In 2009, I started thinking of other options and while searching the web I found that there was some tournament called IPRT tournament to happen in Goa and the winner would be a part of team India.
At the time, hardly anyone played poker and I thought I should capitalise on the opportunity to take poker to the next level. I came down from Chandigarh to Goa and happened to win the first event. The second event I came third and made it to team India.
Q) Any of the current crop of players who were there with you at that time?
Only one person from this room (PSL) was part of it, Prashant Koria. Also another guy, Anil Gulati was also present then. So yeah, we are the core of the first national team. There were a bunch of others who played regularly but most are not playing anymore. Mainly at that time, there was Rohit Bhalla, me and Koria.
I was mainly a tournament player and the cash game stakes here were pretty high so I sat for the cash games after coming here for two player tournaments and ended making a lakh and a half playing cash games in a couple of days.
I thought the cash games were soft and thought I should be spending more time on them. I also spoke to my wife about moving to Goa if I was successful in the cash games as I would be playing online from home anyway. The next time I came to Goa, I won another lakh and a half in three days and decided to move here and make a career out of the game.
I moved to Goa and started playing and while the first month was shaky, I started winning a good amount from then on at the higher stakes games with a one lakh buy in. I went on a 15-16 day win streak and won everything for that amount of time and never looked back and I’m still based in Goa.
Q) Because you had been playing for such a long time, you decided to take a break from the game and when did this happen?
It was not like I decided to take a break because I’d been playing for such a long time but some unfortunate events occurred which made me do it. In 2013, I had some family issues and the marriage wasn’t going too well.
I decided that I would like to stay at home and give a lot of time to my daughter who was only 5 back then. One of the reasons was the personal reasons and the second thing was that a lot of politics entered the picture. It was no longer about being good at poker but it became about networking with the big fish and pretending to be their friend and other things which I really did not want to do. And was not comfortable with.
Q) At this time did you also stop playing online from home?
At this time, online poker was not such a big thing. Poker stars was still there but the games were much tougher and I did not have the skill to make the same kind of money online so I did not want to make small amounts of money and decided to play occasionally to meet my expenses.
Q) What made you come back to the game then after all that had happened?
Well, I actually haven’t come back yet. I might just disappear again. This event is an occasional appearance on the poker scene but it is not really a comeback. A comeback would be when I start coming to the casino consistently for 5 days a week or something like that and for now I’m just playing for fun. The closest I’ve gotten to coming back was last year was when I played for month online but I haven’t been to casino cash games for a while.
Q) After this particular experience where you’ve played competitively for three days, does it make you feel like coming back and competing again?
I’m not sure actually. I’m really not sure which direction my life will go. I didn’t plan on playing the PSL but things happened which brought me here for 5 days and will I be coming again to play poker, I don’t know. To make money, I actually prefer playing live games at home rather than coming to the casino. I don’t see myself coming here.
Q) What about that motivation that led you to play the tournament in 2009. Will that drive you if the opportunity to travel the world and play poker for India comes up?
It does not motivate me anymore. At least not as much as it did in 2009.
Q) What essentially does poker mean to you? You’ve given up your job and sacrificed a lot to play poker. So what significance does the game hold for you in life if you had to describe it in a line or two?
It’s just like any other job which requires various skills. It is a thrilling game and so a lot people really like it. I loved it and dreamt about it in my sleep. There was a lot of passion. But now poker for me is only for me. If I am not motivated to make money then I am really not motivated to play poker. It is just a means to an end.
Q) You have seen multiple generations of Indian poker and the evolution of the sport in the country. How do you think it has changed over time? Do you think it has changed for the better?
There is a lot more interest in tournament poker now, which has grown by leaps and bounds. Earlier it was hardly worth it but now tournament poker has grown and prize pools are really big so it’s worth it now
As far as cash games go, the live scenario has increased by leaps and bounds while the incidence of private home games have also gone up. People used to come play big games in Goa which were open to all. Now there are a lot of politics required to get a seat on the table as there are a lot more takers for the game.
Q) During your time did you ever feel you were sportsperson or an athlete who played poker?
You can’t call me an athlete as that requires athletics but if chess can be considered a sport, poker can certainly be considered one. Both are mind sports.
Q) Poker is currently in a grey area when it comes to being classified as a sport, especially in the Indian scenario. It is often considered to be gambling. Do you think that legalisation of the sport will help the game in the country and in what aspects?
80-90% of the people still consider it gambling and legalising it will help in changing this mindset with which they look at poker. There is far less gamble in poker than there is in business activities like opening a boutique or a restaurant.
For me, that is a way bigger gamble as there is no certainty. 90% of business ventures fail and it is the same with poker but that does not mean you stop commercial activity. I think that someone who is accomplished at poker has better chances of making money than someone who is coming up with a new venture.
Q) How do you think we can remove the stereotype poker has of being a social ill and being termed as gambling?
What we can do is spread knowledge. Knowledge is key. Once they see a group of people consistently doing well, they will know that there is a lot of skill involved. Anyone coming to the casino seeing people win high stakes poker consistently have no doubt that there is a lot of skill involved.
