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It's an often overlooked fact that Fred Rosser is one of the true innovators of professional wrestling. Rosser, while under the moniker of Darren Young, became the first ever openly gay active WWE Superstar. Not only this, though, but he's had an incredible career in his own right, being a crucial part of Nexus and participating in one of WWE's most memorable segments of all time when the faction invaded RAW, as well as winning tag team gold with Titus O'Neil, and being paired with the legendary Bob Backlund in WWE.
Well, Fred joined us for Episode 4 of Dropkick DiSKussions to chat about all of the above, and so much more!
First of all, I need to ask, I was actually incredibly naïve while you're in WWE and I thought your name was Darren Young. Where did the name Darren Young come from?
Darren Young actually was developed in Tampa Florida, FCW, Florida Championship Wrestling at the time. That's where my Performance Center was before it moved to Orlando.
It was Dusty Rhodes who was helping all the guys with promos and character development, so Dusty was the one that helped me come up with Darren Young, so I liked to call myself, when I was with WWE, D Young because it sounds more hip and stuff like that, but Darren Young was worked out with Dusty Rhodes.
You were the first ever openly gay WWE Superstar and, to date, you're still the only openly gay male to ever perform inside a WWE ring. How difficult was the decision for you to come out publicly being that you would know you were the first ever person to do so?
Well, for me, there are many reasons why I ultimately came out to the world, but one of the main reasons was because I found love, and my own happiness is more important than anything, even my career.
I sacrificed my career and my childhood dream so I could inspire others to be themselves and accept themselves. I came out because I ultimately wanted to bring my partner... I hate using the word "partner", I wanted to be able to bring my boyfriend to red carpet events, I wanted him to be able to experience what it's like backstage in the masculine world of professional wrestling, so I wanted him to be able to experience what I experienced and be proud to show him off to the world, and I did that.
I didn't realise my story was a big deal when I came out until, of all people, the icon Cher reached out to me on social media and said, because of her hearing my story, one of her friends is a big wrestling fan, so she thanked me and it was at that minute I realised my story was a big f***ing deal.
For my social media, I don't post for the thousands that are going to hate on my post. I post for the one person that is inspired by what I post. So, I would say my fight was much bigger outside of the ring in all actuality, fighting bigotry and hatred, trying to be the voice for the voiceless, when it comes to not only the LGBTQ community but anyone that gets bullied for various reasons.
That is why my whole "Block The Hate" is so near and dear to me because in this world, we all receive hate for various reasons but in order to be strong and successful, we have to block the hate. Especially in crazy times like this in the States and pretty much worldwide, we've got to have each other's back and it's easier to love that it is to hate. Hate is too big of a burden for me or anyone, so I love going and speaking to schools all over the world and sharing my story, giving some motivation, giving people hope out there that, whether you see me on my social media or whether you see me on the big screen, you might identify with me and say, "Do you know what? If Mr No Days Off Fred Rosser can do it, then so can I."
NEXT: Did WWE miss an opportunity?
COMING UP: Darren's relationships with Vince and Bob Backlund
Now, you're kind of bringing in a lot more inclusiveness and you're making wrestling a much more tolerant place. We have people in WWE doing that, like Sonya Deville and of course Finn Balor that as well. Even in AEW, there's the likes of Sonny Kiss. Do you think that you have a duty to raise awareness and fight prejudice?
For me, I'm not the first and I won't be the last. I am the first openly gay WWE Superstar so I would say we need more representation out there. We need more athletes speaking up and speaking out, and making it easier for people to just live their truth, and follow their dreams, and not allow the opinions of others to derail them on their journey to greatness.
For me, being the first openly gay wrestler, being the first in anything, honestly, is a big deal but for me, being the first, I've encouraged other athletes.
Also by being the first, I've encouraged wrestling fans all over the world to go after their dreams and keep the head up, and never, never have their heads down. Always keep you head up. If you get knocked down eight times, you get back up nine times. So, I don't play the victim. I'm a fighter, and I'm going to keep fighting until I'm six feet under.
In terms of representation, should Darren Young have been able to be a bit more representative of the LGBTQ community in WWE? Do you feel like you should have been able to be more of Fred Rosser and less of Darren Young?
For me, like, I've been out of WWE, like, over two years now, so I can do one of two things. I could be like some old timers or some former WWE Superstars and be one of those guys that p***es and moans - upset over this, upset over that - but I'm very grateful for all of my experiences with WWE, I'm very grateful for all the friends that I have made.
When I came out, I was very fearful. Fearful of the unknown, fearful of losing my job, but when guys like Randy Orton, Mark Henry, Big Show, Titus O'Neil, Sheamus - when those guys embrace you... CM Punk also, of all people, when they embrace you with open arms, it makes it that much easier for me to walk into a locker room, it makes it much easier for me to go out there and wow the crowd and perform.
It was Mark Henry, years ago, before I came out, he kind of outed me a little bit. I just came up onto the main roster from NXT1, the original NXT, and, at the time, I had this gold sequence around my hair, and my hair was spiky. I felt like I was looking fly, flash and fabulous, but Mark Henry in the locker room said, "Why do you got your hair like that, boy? It makes you look gay." I was just like, blown away. I said, "Mark, I'm just trying to look different, I'm trying to stand out."
Fast forward to when I came out publicly, like I said, he was one of the first guys to embrace me and then he was like, "Boy, how come you didn't tell me? How come you didn't tell me?" I said, "Mark, man, I was fearful of the unknown, man."
I had a great career with WWE. I didn't just come off the football field and get into a WWE ring. I grinded on the independents, I started September 11th, 2002, professional wrestling. One year after 9/11. I grinded it out from 2002 until 2009 until I got signed, May 4th, 20009 out of 75 guys and girls from all of the world. I beat them all out.
The same day I got signed was the same day that AJ lee got signed. So, I'm very happy with the career that I had in WWE, so what do I do now? I take my platform that I built with WWE and I speak to schools, I am heavily involved with the community. I do so much work for the Covenant House here in California that deals with homeless youth, I deal with Athlete Ally, an organisation that deals with athletes that are LGBTQ. I'm involved in so much.
Just recently, it might not be big to anyone else, but it was really big to me. Recently, in South Beach, Miami, Florida, I recently received my biggest honour ever, the Vanguard award and the key to the city - which is a confirmation of something I had done and that motivates me to keep pushing a little harder and I will continue to roll up my sleeves and keep advocating for social change, which is so important to me.
Recently, at World Pride, in New York City, the biggest Pride ever. Over five million people in New York City, and I teamed up with the Gay Officer Action League and it was a celebration for me in the history books, so, to be a part of over five million people in New York at World Pride, representing the Gay Officers Action League was very, very special to me. It was special to me because I had my mom there, who is also gay, and we were representing like no other.
On top of that, on a bucket list of mine was being able to speak at UCLA. So UCLA is a major university here in Southern California and I was able to speak there, and I talked about what motivated me to start my Block The Hate movement, the challenges I faced and the successes that inspired me to continue my work.
For me, there is no quick fix for equality, the quick fix is education and love, so there are so many things that I've been doing since leaving WWE, so many honours that I've been receiving, but like I say, I'm 35 and I feel so alive.
My 20s gelled into my 30s, so like I say one monkey don't stop the show, so I've got to keep moving, keep hustling and I tell everyone, "I'll see you at the finish line." Mr No Days Off just isn't a nickname for me, I always stress that Mr No Days Off is a nickname for male, female, boy, girl, it's for anyone. You take that nickname and you run with it. For me, Mr No Days Off is just a way of life. It's constant grind, constant struggle and loving life and keeping my head up.
NEXT: Darren's relationships with Vince and Bob Backlund
COMING UP: Where will Darren Young wrestle next?
You've already mentioned there how brilliant your career was in WWE. Of course, from NXT, the full Nexus movement and you were in Prime Time Players with Titus O'Neil, and we last saw you with Bob Backlund! What was your personal highlight?
My personal highlight... You know, of course winning the Tag Team Championships with Titus O'Neil. Whether people can say, "Oh, I wish WWE would have done this with you, or that with you better." I achieved my dreams by getting signed with WWE. I achieved my dreams by becoming Tag Team Champions with Titus O'Neil. I achieved my dream after teaming with Titus by teaming with Bob Backlund and him being my life coach.
What a lot of people don't know is... They thought Bob Backlund was paired with me, they thought it was the WWE writers that put the storyline together, it was actually me. Because tag teams don't last forever. So, I've done personal appearances with Bob Backlund, he's very energetic, I'm very energetic, he likes to stand during his autograph signings, I stand during my autograph signings.
I said to myself, when it's all said and done teaming with Titus O'Neil, I'd like to have Bob Backlund as my life coach, because I feel like the missing ingredient in all of professional wrestling are managers.
Managers are so fun and so important in the wrestling game, and I wanted to bring Bob Backlund along and just have him be my life coach. We are both strange bedfellows, very different personalities but we were actually really good friends, and it was actually me who wrote down the ideas, had visuals, and I proposed them to Vince McMahon and the most intimidating thing about Vince McMahon is his office door. Once you're past his office door, it's all gravy.
I proposed the idea, I actually took the idea from Mike Tyson and his former trainer Cus. They were both strange... You know, strange bedfellows, had an unorthodox relationship but Mike's trainer really loved him, and they both loved each other, so I took that idea and I proposed that to Vince McMahon, and he loved it.
He called up Bob Backlund for me personally, and said, "Oh, would you be down to come back and manage Darren Young, and do this Make Darren Young Great Again thing?" And he was down we ran with it. And it started to get some momentum going, and then it's just unfortunate, you know, the people at work under Vince McMahon didn't have my back.
It is what it is but there's footage on my social media, there's footage on YouTube of "make Darren Young gimmick get over" and my last big feud was with the Miz, and when I first met the Miz years ago, even as an extra and even when I got signed, when I first met the Miz, I thought he was so annoying, I thought he was so annoying not only from the Real World but also just being around him and just fast forward to the end of my career in WWE and Miz being my last feud, he actually really, really helped me out and he was actually rooting for me to take the title from him and of course, maybe the next day, he would have won it back or a week later or something like that, but it's all about give a dog a bone, you know?
Let me experience winning the Intercontinental Championship.
It's just unfortunate the people under Vince McMahon didn't have my back. I had a lot of fun with the Miz, he helped me out with the promo work that we did, he made me feel comfortable because Miz is one of the best at it, and for him to help me out and go to war for me, to win the championship title will always be near and dear to me.
Vince McMahon gave me many shots. He gave me shots teaming with Titus O'Neil, because Titus and I were backstage and Vince seen us backstage acting crazy and he saw that this could be on TV. He gave Titus and I and opportunity, he gave me an opportunity with Bob Backlund, so I will never honestly have a bad word to say about Vince McMahon, it's just that it still hurts sometimes that people under him didn't have my back, but you can't win everyone over and, like I said, I'm not going to complain about anything. I'm going to celebrate all of my successes.
NEXT: Darren's dream match
COMING UP: Where will Darren Young wrestle next?
You had a lot of other memorable feuds both in singles action and in tag team action, but if you were to choose to have one match with any other wrestler on the planet, who would you choose?
My dream match would have to be against the only other big gold medallist in the way that we history, Kurt Angle. You know, Shawn Michaels will always be my number one, no matter how he has treated me, but Kurt Angle is an amazing person inside of the ring and outside of the ring.
I remember probably back in 2007, I was an extra for WWE and Kurt was ringside. Me being a extra, I went over and said, "Kurt, if you have an amateur background, is it good to incorporate it in professional wrestling, what we do in entertainment?" He said, "Anyone with an amateur background, if they can sprinkle it into a sports entertainment world, that's a great thing."
I kind of knew the answer to that but I wanted to hear it from him. Fast forward to me holding his Olympic gold medals when he had his feud with Shawn Michaels, Kurt was always nice to me as an extra, Kurt was always nice to me when he came back to WWE years later.
It's like, never meet your heroes because you might be disappointed. He's one guy that... You know, always treated me with respect, knew me by name, his intensity in the ring was something that I tried to mirror on the independence and still, to this day, he had so much intensity, he was explosive, he was real. Real and funny. You know, the perfect combination. Being real in the ring and being entertaining. It is something that honestly you cannot teach.
The wrestling world I think is incredible everywhere right now. The indies are thriving, WWE is thriving, AEW hasn't really got started yet and they are already thriving and Impact is going through a great time. Might we ever see Fred Rosser in any of those three companies?
Well, never say never. Never say never. I haven't retired at all. I still have a lot left in the tank, I have a lot left to offer. This year, 2019, was spent doing so many other projects that I haven't wrestled this year. I've been doing so many speaking engagements, I've been a part of a few cameos out here in LA, so I have done no wrestling until the fall time so when the fall time comes, I've got a few dates coming up, for quality promotions.
I try to focus on the quality over quantity, so, like I said, I haven't retired. I've made it known to AEW that I have strong interests in AEW, I have strong interests in New Japan Pro Wrestling. I've wrestled all of the world but I've never wrestled in Southeast Asia so hopefully maybe with this interview, a lot of interviews I do, I always put it out there, hopefully I can accomplish a bucket list of performing in Southeast Asia. So, I'm working on that as we speak.
Hopefully I can travel to Singapore Pro Wrestling in November to compete with them.
Don't count me out. I would say just because moves aren't being announced doesn't been moves aren't being made, so, as we speak, I make the connections, I'm emailing, I'm doing what I have to do to make moves. That was Titus and I's theme song by Sugar Tongue Slim. "Making moves, making moves, making million-dollar moves," and it's something that I preach every day.
I might not be making million-dollar moves. I always said for wrestling, if I would have done this for the money, I would have complained a long time ago. I do this for the love, I do this for the passion. I've wrestled in front of 20 people, 30 people with no shower and no toilet. I've travelled... I've travelled 300 miles to a show to get paid $20-25 to do a show, but, do you know what? I love entertainment. There's no better feeling for me than being under the big, bright lights.
NEXT: Darren speaks about his release from WWE
The likes of Sonny Kiss and Sonya Deville, and Finn... I mean, Finn's a good friend of mine but Finn is also an ally who is representing the community - and a funny story... Not really funny story about Finn but when I got released from WWE, over two years ago, I wasn't really upset over it, nothing last forever. I always said, Michael Jordan can't play basketball forever. Not saying I'm Michael Jordan, but... You know, you know, he can't perform forever - so when I got released, you know, it is what it is, I was already living out in California because I wanted to get into some acting and commercials.
But months later, at WrestleMania, WWE had finally embraced the LGBTQ movement but they did it on a straight guy, Finn. When I seen that the next day, this was at WrestleMania, the next day, Monday, I was devastated, man. I cried like a baby. I cried like a baby because I'd just been released and then they are finally embracing the LGBT movement but they are doing it with Finn. It broke my heart. I'm a grown man, 35 years old, and I cried like a baby.
But, like I said, if it wasn't for me making that sacrifice, I don't think we would have been able to fully embrace the LGBTQ movement.
So, like I said, I'm not the first, I'm not the last, but I'm the one who came out publicly while still signed, so I want it to be a domino effect, you know? Whether people see me on TV, or on my social media, I want them to say, "Well, if you can do it, so can I."
And social media is my open diary to the world. So, there are people that say, "Oh, I need a break from social media, I need to get off social media." Well, you can look at social media one of two ways. You can use it to impact, motivate and educate people or you can use it to s**t on people snd I'm not going to use it to s**t on people.
Everything I do always comes from the heart with the intent to motivate, inspire and educate the masses, not just the LGBTQ community but the masses.
I've got one last question. We've been so inclusive with this interview that I think we need one divisive question. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no?
No, I don't like to mix my sweets and savoury stuff. I don't like missing my salts with my sugars. So, yeah, I would say no. No pineapple on pizza.
Give me pepperoni, give me pepperoni. Domino's Pizza is my favourite pizza.
Excellent, thank you so much, and it was a pleasure speaking to you.
Yeah, thank you, and please follow me on Twitter, Instagram, my social media, @realfredrosser, my government name. Join the Block The Hate movement that is running wild in a city near you.
I always say none of us are as strong as all of us, so the Block The Hate t-shirts are just a byproduct. The point of me is to spread love and spread my Block The Hate movement because strength in numbers is so important.
So, like I said, I don't post for the thousands that might hate, I post that one person that is inspired and like I said, don't die with the story, you tell it. Definitely follow my journey and if you don't have anyone in your family that supports you, be a part of my family on social media.
The holidays are coming around, if people don't have that support, be a part of my family on social media.
A huge thank you to Darren Young for speaking with me. You can follow Darren on Twitter here or Instagram here.
