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A few days before the official content reveal of Path of Exile's Secrets of the Atlas expansion, I had an opportunity to interview Path of Exile's Game Director, Mark Roberts. In light of the upcoming update, we chatted about older league content, how balancing generally works, bridging the quality of life gap between both Path of Exile titles, trading, and more.
Secrets of the Atlas, a.k.a Update 3.26, is set to become one of the biggest patches for the game, given its lengthy developmental schedule, rife with delays from Path of Exile 2's concurrent development snafus. The update combines an Atlas expansion, broadening the larger endgame system, and a challenge league, which is the seasonal mechanic focused on recruiting mercenaries-for-hire.
Mark Roberts goes into detail about Path of Exile and turning ideas into working in-game mechanics
Q. So, the first question I want to ask is about a league mechanic that I played when I started in PoE — Delve. Now, Delve and Delve Crafting have kind of fallen out of favor, I would say, in terms of the new mechanics and everything. So, how is the team looking at Delve in this context? Is there a plan to revamp or rework it in a certain way?
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Mark Roberts: The way we generally look at these things is, for a given expansion, "okay, what's the new thing we're adding? And then what is the thing we're reinvigorating and bringing back to life?" And as you can see, something like Betrayal was something that we're reinvigorating this time.
Just to give you some insight into the process, this is how it would be for Delve. We generally pick the candidates based on the player receptions and what our player base feels needs the most attention and love, or what problems need solving.
Because yes, things become stale over time as you add more content. The existing things become less favorable, or they can become worse, and they get nerfed by proximity, if you want to think of it that way.
So you are right that Delve needs a bit of an overhaul. Now, it's hard to say to what level. It could just be make the rewards better, you know, do a pass on some bosses and stuff like that, and you're mostly good to go. And then, yeah, fossil crafting still has its place, for sure. It is still used and can still be pretty good. But it is true that it can often be outshone by some of the things.
I mean, look, it needs an improvement. But I wouldn't say we're actively thinking of every single old bit of content. It's more like, "Hey, look, what needs improving? Let's figure it out. What's our next target that we're going to hit?" Now, because we stay quite flexible, we don't know what the next league is that we're going to reinvigorate.
Sometimes we know in advance some stuff needs doing, but often we leave this up to the players to tell us. So when the players need it, when the players demand it, and it is of greater importance than all of the other competitors, that is when we're going to do it and focus on it. Now, it's either the expansion after or the one after that.
So yeah, we don't have our... Well, first we'll get 3.26 out, we'll see what's going on, we'll see what the players want to overhaul, and then we're going to go from there. Like, we stay adaptive for a reason.
Q. This is a personal question. Is Scourge ever going to come back? It has been one of the most enjoyable League mechanics I've ever engaged with, because I love just walking in a straight line, killing enemies.
Mark Roberts: It might. We obviously used all of the monsters to do a big overhaul to Beyond. So we'd have to come up with a new theming for it. But in terms of the mechanic, I wouldn't rule it out. It's not currently planned, but I wouldn't rule it out.
I do think there was something very cool about it, without a doubt. Being able to press a button and change the environment and all the monsters on demand, you know, almost like time shift or reality shift. I think was really, really fun. It occasionally comes up as a talking point, like, "Is this a thing we want to redo?" It was just hard to find a good way to integrate it into the current game and the end game.
Like, it was very good as a league, but in terms of a core mechanic, we haven't quite found exactly how to integrate that. But again, I would retheme it. I would change, you know, some stuff about it and then find a way to add it in.
I just need... Often, what happens is we will have an idea of a thing, and we'll be like, "Oh, this can fit here, and this is how we can do it." So once that comes up, it probably will make a comeback. It was a mechanic, I think I also liked a lot. So I would say that there's a chance you'll see it or something similar in the future. I just don't know when.
Arnab Chakrabarti: I mean, I'm happy that it's in the talks.
Q. The spectre resummoning feature from PoE 2. Is it ever going to come to POE 1 as a quality-of-life feature?
Mark Roberts: I actually internally talked about this the other day. I was like, "Would it be a thing we can..." Look, I guess the short short answer there is yes, I am certainly considering it.
It wouldn't just be for spectres. It would probably be for all permanent minions. But I just need to figure it out a little bit. I'd say the next time we do a big character balance update. Like this time, obviously, it's more content-centric with an in-game expansion. We'll do some that are more character-centric where we focus more on balance, characters, expanding archetypes, overhauling, all that. It'll probably be in that list.
But it's 100% coming out. I'm constantly looking at the things that POE 2 did with its skills and thinking, "This should probably apply to POE 1 as well". It's just, again, it's a matter of resourcing and doing it at the right time at that point.
So once we're in our "Let's make all these archetypes better in a more notable way", similar to how we did with melee for Settlers of Kalguur, once we repeat that with a lot more archetypes, we'll certainly get into the whole, "This is just a straight-up upgrade to the quality of life."
Also read: Path of Exile Secrets of the Atlas patch notes (patch 3.26)
Q. The next thing I wanted to talk about is, and I think it was discussed at a certain point. I'm forgetting when, but the topic was around integrating trade and the currency exchange within the game system itself. So you wouldn't have to alt-tab out of the game and go to the trade website to look for items. So, is there any kind of talk within the team internally to get a sort of in-game trade house on the way?
Mark Roberts: Jonathan pitched that or mentioned that, too. I can't remember. It was a while back, obviously, when we were talking about the currency exchange as well, and we ended up doing the currency exchange. The plan so far has been to see how that pans out, and does that air quotes "solve" trading enough to remove a lot of the annoyance and friction, such that we don't need to also do that other system.
So we wanted to make sure we roll them out one at a time. That way, we get to assess the importance and value of each system independently. So now that currency exchange has been out, it's obviously going core because, come on, it was insanely valuable.
So I would say when we do our next major trading experiment or whatever you want to call it, it'll be the same system Jonathan spoke about before. Now, I have no idea when that will be, and whether or not it will go to Path of Exile 1 or 2 first is still unclear, but the intention will be that we experiment with that system as well.
So we want to do it internally first, of course, and then roll it out to more and more people to see how it plays.
It's just that with these kinds of systems, you can't really ever tell if it's a success or a failure until it hits a large enough economy. So obviously, the live realm is the best testing ground for that. So that is probably what we'll be doing.
But yes, I don't know if you recall the system, but it was effectively a kind of like: You can set stuff for sale and then you can, asynchronously, when they're offline, go to people's hideout and purchase it from there and stuff like that. Still using the website, for now.
I mean, look, I would love to get everything integrated in-game. I don't know when and if we'll be doing that, but certainly, just to at least get it to be asynchronous trading would be the next major experiment we would be willing to do. So I wouldn't really call it an auction house. It's a bit different, but it certainly would allow for offline trading or selling of items.
But again, when you get these things, it's very important, and it's the thing a lot of games mess up, which is that bots then rule the scene. And it is very, very, very, very important that whatever we do here doesn't just turn into bots buying everything and doing everything using automated stuff. And as much as it can be that we regulate those and we ban those and we detect those, that is still a war that has to be fought.
And we want to make sure we have the resources to be able to battle that beforehand as well. So it's like, there's a little bit more to think about when adding these instead of just like, "Let's implement the system". It's like, well, hold on.
If the players now don't even get to interact with it properly because we aren't able to stay on top of like botters or people using some sort of automated systems and stuff like that, then obviously it can, in fact, ruin the experience for your regular player.
And so there's stuff we want to make sure we do right before we go down that path. And that is a good example. Again, trying to combat the automation of this thing is going to be very, very important.
And you do see this in a lot of games, and then you get this insane hyperinflation that occurs with items. And now, all of a sudden, regular people can't even afford anything. So again, we will try and stay on top of all of that and make sure we're confident before we do it because destroying the trade economy would not be a good thing to do.
Q. This is kind of a balance-oriented question, because a couple of others love playing these builds. Are there any plans to change trap and mine builds in this patch or the next patches?
Mark Roberts: Well, we're changing the Saboteur at least, which is kind of trap-mine adjacent. That was one of the five classes that we're giving a bunch of stuff to. I think it was shown briefly in the livestream as well. That alone might help. Often, what you find with a lot of these builds is that changing the smallest thing can make the largest difference.
That being said, there are a whole bunch of new kinds of gems, and there's definitely a Trap and Mine... What are we calling them again? One of the mods from the Mercenaries. I already forgot the name. My mind is blanking. Anyway, I forgot the word, but there's a new mod there that I remember that you can see, which was a Trap and Mine-related one. There's some stuff like that in here.
I would say there's not like a broad looking at Traps and Mines, but there's certainly some things that could shift the needle, like 100%. Honestly, we can't always predict these things. The players will find it, and they'll tell us, and it might be with the new Saboteur. You see a lot of it, or maybe with the new Saboteur, you see a lot of non-Trap and Mine Saboteurs. Now, I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see.
But that being said, again, next time we kind of start to target more player archetypes and we find... We know that there are some good mine builds, but Traps in particular have certainly been on the "Not Popular" end for a while. And so that will be something that we start to really look at. And even within the Mines, there aren't too many options.
There are some pretty clear-cut winners, and you'd want to bring those in line a little bit while making sure all the others, the more traditional Miners, are probably getting a little bit more love.
Arnab Chakrabarti: Yeah, I mean, one of the first builds I've ever played was Pyroclast Mine with the Astral Projector. It was really popular back in the day, but that's kind of fallen out of favor.
Q. Are the Medium Talent or Keystone Tattoos from Trial of the Ancestors coming back?
Mark Roberts: Not yet, but I want to. There were some balance concerns, which are valid. I can't remember exactly. It's obviously been a while, but yes, I want to reinvigorate and extrapolate on that tattoo system back to kind of how it was, but like maybe with some of the outlying issues addressed. But yeah, 100% I want to, and I would say that that's probably going to happen with almost certainty in the future.
Q. A small follow-up, is the League mechanic coming back ever? Because I think people kind of came up with like really cool, different build ideas in that sense. So, is there a chance of Trial of the Ancestors coming back?
Mark Roberts: It's certainly not zero. I mean, I think a lot of us want to do it. I can't say with certainty one way or the other. I know a lot of these are just like, "Look, maybe... maybe..."But if it were up to me and not an entirely resourcing problem, I would do it without question.
Q. Right. I think the other question I was going to ask, but it has been invalidated now, is that T17 loot has been way too prevalent in the last League and even beyond that. So now with the Memory-Influenced maps, obviously, we're getting some aspect of the T17 loot in T16s. Was that kind of the idea that there's this huge gap between loot in the two map systems that you had to bridge?
Mark Roberts: I wouldn't say the idea was to create a huge gap. That kind of happened, you know, I don't want to say unintentionally, but yeah, it happened. I mean, the main issue is like, obviously if a map is more rewarding and it gives a lot more loot, then of course you're going to juice it and then that multiplicative axis takes it to a level, you know, that's going to outclass any T16s. It was intentional, obviously, you know, so that people want to run the T17s as well.
Like, we didn't want it to be like, "Oh, these are lame. I'm just going to only do it for the boss and then leave." So they succeeded in terms of being like, "Holy, I want to do these for sure." But yeah, because the difference was so great, obviously, then you felt like you had to do them all the time, and you would never waste scarabs, etc, etc, on T16s.
So, of course, yes, you're now feeling obligated (to run T17s). And if you can't sustain T17s, which you can't, you have to go and buy them. And you get these kinds of spikes. Or you have to farm for them, in which case you either get this feeling of "I have to trade", or you get the second feeling of "I have to do this boring content to get access to the fun content." And both were kind of having a negative feeling.
So the intention with the new system was to solve that problem 100%. It was like, this is a problem we have. I wouldn't want to just nerf T17s. Maybe that is a thing that could be done to some degree. I wouldn't want to just buff the loot of all other maps.
Like, it was fine for a while. There's no need to power creep it because we accidentally added something a bit too strong. So it's like, "you know what? Let's give people a way to get more T16s of the different maps with the different bosses and the different diff card drops with the tier 17 mod pool to bridge the gap in the rewards."
And that way, they can be farming more of the map they want instead of those five T17 base types, where you're repeating those same tilesets over and over. So yeah, it is intentional to help fix this exact problem. I won't say it's necessarily exactly in the right spot nowadays.
But we'll have to see, right? I mean, this is why, again, we stay flexible and adaptive, and we'll see what people play and then we'll just make more changes.
Arnab - The other question was, and it's related to the Uber boss fights, is that oftentimes players do not get the cost of entry versus the reward. In that sense, it can feel unfair if you're not getting particularly lucky with your boss drops.
So, is there a sort of system in the talks where maybe players can get certain currencies? Like, for example, the Resplendent Spark from Diablo 4. You collect a couple of those, and you can make your own mythic uniques. So, is there a plan to introduce that kind of mechanic in Path of Exile? Or is it just, "No, go here to the boss. If you get lucky, that's it."?
Mark Roberts: About this one yet, I'd need to actually think about that to have a better answer. But obviously it sucks if, you know, 80% of the time or whatever you're getting worthless drops from the boss.
That being said, obviously, the meta and the economy control that. So, what might've been trash or a valueless unique in this league might be worth a whole lot in the next league. And we can't entirely predict that, of course, but that's what ideally balance updates and various things are for.
Now that being said, I do like it when you hit the jackpot. Like the jackpots are important. And if you add and saturate too much of a thing, then you're not going to have those jackpot feelings, unless the thing is universally usable on all builds.
So I don't know, I kind of don't exactly know how I feel. Like I sympathize with the issue for sure, or empathize with it, I suppose more so. But I don't exactly know what my solution would be because I would certainly also be afraid to add a level of determinism.
And then all of a sudden...there's no guarantee that the new thing we add will then even be valued either. You can't always know that in advance. Now, what I would probably prefer to do is add more of the like specialized currency items that a lot of the bosses drop, things that are quite usable and craftable on your gear. So, at least you're getting some minimum level of crafting opportunity.
Now I'm not saying to create a Mythic Unique, like the example you gave, more like something that the boss drops that you can then use on rares or use on maps to make something better. And a good example would have been, before, something like the Shaper's and Elder's Exalted Orbs and all of that.
And then also like, what was before? The Elevated Sextants and all of that kind of stuff, like filled that role where it's like, "Here's a nice consumable that can drop that I can feel good about. Even if I didn't get the best unique, I can at least maybe go and sell this or craft something." And so having them be consumables helps solve that meta problem to at least some degree.
So I'd be more inclined to do that. And the other way, of course, is the jewels they drop because they are more universally usable and have a lot of modularity. So, pushing more of those to drop instead of the other uniques, because generally there's like a minimum value on at least some of them.
Obviously, some are worthless, but again, maybe we raise the floor on those so that they're better on average.
And yeah, there's a lot of specifics there. I'd have to think about it in more detail, but this is the exact kind of thing that would come up. And if the players echoed it, of course, it then comes up, and I would add it to my list of "Here's what I want to solve in 3.27."
Q. This question is related to my friends, who are very interested in this specific mechanic. What I mean is that they are predominantly spending time, and I think a lot of people are predominantly spending time within the Forbidden Sanctum. And obviously, the game is about choice and giving players a choice of what content they want to run. But then again, you want people to experience the new content that you're putting in the game so they can appreciate the fresh coat of paint, so to speak.
So how are you... Or is there a sort of plan to get players more interested in the new content? Rather than what makes them more money per hour?
Mark Roberts: I wouldn't say there's an explicit plan there because, at the end of the day, again, it's hard to know what the stuff we're adding will be valued at because there is too much complexity at the point where we can predict that with certainty. And make sure it multiplies with everything else.
And obviously, we can kind of have a general gauge on what's powerful, what's going to be valuable, and what's not, obviously.
And there are obvious cases, and then there are cases that are a bit more abstract. However, we don't like to intentionally make the new things more powerful or anything like that. We try and have it be balanced.
Obviously, you can't always hit the mark, but you know, it is what it is. And then, it's the kind of thing where, yeah, I agree, Sanctum right now is a very nice deterministic amount of currency per hour. Like, it is very good.
It is a very nice way of making that money. But also, like, good on them. Like, let them do it, you know? It's kind of good. And sure, it may need a little bit of a nudge down and whatnot. But at the end of the day, it's what you're going to have; if it's not that, it'll be something else. And often that's how things will generally shift.
So when I generally try and do to make the new content, often the idea is that the new content would target a different way of optimizing some amount or some part of your gear or some part of your equipment.
But as long as it gives players a nice choice where they don't feel like they have to do a certain thing, I'd say it's generally a success. So I think there are going to be a lot of people, for example, who go back and are like, "I'm going to min-max my Betrayal Board and do this and this and this and this and this."
And they're going to be getting a ton of wealth out of it, right? Either via Catarina farming with the Allflames, or by farming the Veiled Unique Items with the right mods. Sure, that's the obvious stuff from Catarina. Veiled Exalted Orbs. Or maybe just using those crafting sprees.
I know a guy who, at the start of every single league, will play Expedition literally just to Rog craft because good-valued rares are insanely valued at the start of the league in a trade market. And then over time, it tapers off. And so then they move into some other league.
So even time is a context to that, or a factor people need to consider and do consider when they're playing, to be, "How can I get as rich as I can? Well, actually, I can make more currency per hour in the first two or three days by playing this league. And then after that, I'll pivot over to this other league." And then maybe eventually they, you know, do some crazy map juicing of some kind.
So it's kind of cool, and honestly, all kinds of fun to observe. It's just mostly, as long as people are having fun, that's honestly the thing we're trying to provide at the end of the day. And if farming Sanctum is fun, then so be it. Then go for it.
Now, if it comes to the point where I'm like, "Oh, I have to, and I don't want to," yeah, then we're at a bit of a problem. And some people might feel that way. And hopefully, they experiment with the new stuff and see what happens.
But, you know, what I would like to do, just a last bit on that question, is add something unique to Sanctum. Because it is just giving regular currency. And I think it should have its own crafting mechanic or reward mechanic that is unique to it.
So instead of just giving generic currency and a lot of it, it can still do that and give whatever rewards. But on top of that, it should be giving something exclusive that you can only obtain from Sanctum, much like most leagues have at least something in that regard.
Q. I have been thinking about what you said regarding the Allflames. Previously, when all flames were a thing, they were, let's just say, broken in many ways than most. So, have the outlier interactions been tuned down?
Mark Roberts: Yes. I mean, look, part of the problem was obviously strongboxes and shrines... so obviously during Necropolis, you would replace a pack with a different type of pack. So any spawning of that pack would be replaced. But now it doesn't work the same way. They get added to the pool, but they have a different weighting, so you don't replace 20% of monsters with a certain pack. So we get to control how many of the packs are added.
And so you know you're not all of a sudden adding, f**king whatever it was, like several hundred rogue exiles to your map. It doesn't work that way anymore. We've obviously learned from that mistake. So that can be fun, and we can buff and nerf each of them individually with this lever as well.
So if they go in and they're kind of underwhelming, and some of them are underwhelming, we can up it. And if some of them are a bit too crazy, we can lower a few more levers this time around.
Now, generally, it would have to be pretty excessive for us to lower it, but the good thing here is, well, they are taking the place of a scarab as opposed to being additive, so they can also be balanced around when against scarabs.
And the other thing, of course, the other difference is that they are itemized, which means you can trade for them. Oh, I know you could before, sorry, but they don't have the other thing that multiplied with them, which are like the pack modifiers Necropolis had, which is another broken case that appeared. But there are lots of levers here. We obviously saw what happened, it was kind of outrageous.
Arnab Chakrabarti: I mean, I made my money selling...I think it was Allflames of Gigantism that was "Make everything have 300% more HP" and it was giving out Divines out of the wazoo. Yeah, it was insane seeing that kind of loot drop.
Q. One more question is that now that Settlers has gone core, is the league mechanic going to unlock when players reach the end game? Or is it like, "Okay, the players are in Act 6 or Act 7", so you eventually start easing them into how to use the mechanics, how to farm the ores, and everything?
Mark Roberts: Once you get to the end game, you get to go to Kingsmarch. So you'll find Johan at the endgame town, who will invite you there. You'll find the ores, like the Orichalcum, Verisium, I can't remember...
Arnab Chakrabarti: Petrified Amber.
Mark Roberts: Yeah, Petrified Amber and all of that will be in the endgame. But again, you get the currency exchange, the gambling, and the respec throughout the whole campaign.
Path of Exile: Secrets of the Atlas and Path of Exile: Mercenaries of Trarthus come out on June 13, 2025, at 1 pm PDT for PC and consoles.
Follow us for more Path of Exile updates and articles:
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- Everything coming to Path of Exile with Secrets of the Atlas (3.26 League)
- Path of Exile 3.26 Secrets of the Atlas: Runegrafting explained
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